/fiber/community?hl=en
/fiber/community?hl=en
1/2/18
Original Poster
Atlantisman

Network Box substitution or Improvement

There needs to be more advanced features in the network box firmware such as, 

Static routes
DMZ selection
Bridge mode (network box doesn't handle routing and etc, just acts as a bridge to get onto the Google Fiber network) 


The other option is customers should be able to use their own 3rd party routing device, plugging it directly into the Fiber Jack without having the solution being double NATing, I do not see double NATing as an option realistically, and causes more problems especially in devices that rely on UPnP, such as an xbox, or other internet connected devices.

If anyone else has anything else to add, please do, lets get this threat noticed by google so they can give Advanced Networking Users a better experience with Google Fiber. I would be thrilled if we could get some of these features added.

EDIT from 2017:
Using this guide you can bypass the Google Fiber Network Box:
https://netswat.com/blog/google-fiber-ubiquitis-edgerouter/

It does get a little more complicated if you have TV service and the new generation equipment, though.
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All Replies (655)
Rick Hornsby
11/20/13
Rick Hornsby
I've had GF since March, and despite some subtle hints to the contrary, nothing has changed that I can tell.  The GF "network box" is a pain to manage because the UI is a confusing mess, and has very few features.  I'm trying to figure out where the DMZ host option is, and it seems to be missing.  If you try to forward all ports to a single host, the UI complains that ports are already being forwarded (ie Slingbox, etc).  "Forward all ports except those requested by uPnP."  How hard is that?

Ideally, this network box would go away, or act as a bridge like a standard cable modem does.
11/20/13
Original Poster
Atlantisman
Sorry, of course i meant to say thread, instead of threat on the last sentence.
12/5/13
Original Poster
Atlantisman
If Google fiber wants to provide services to SMB then these features will have to be in place.
JeffV
12/5/13
JeffV
At one point I had stumbled across the Fiber support page for entities such as schools and libraries that were getting the free hookups in qualified Fiberhoods. 

I'm drawing a blank on finding it now.  But the one thing that stood out to me is the fact that they're not forcing those customers to use the network box.  It's optional.  Those customers can hook directly to the ethernet connector on the fiber jack.

There's no technical reason to require the network box.   I can only guess that it's there to guarantee customers get the full gigabit speeds, and I suspect it may also have some special sauce for grabbing statistics on usage.   If there's something in the network box that's required for the TV service to work, I wish someone would just tell us. That bit is irrelevant for internet-only customers.

I'm going crazy waiting for my Fiber to be installed, but there's two very big things I'm going to give up when I finally kick Time Warner out of my house.

AMC.
Control of my router. 

It'd be really, really nice if they'd give us 'pro-sumer' users the option to use our own routers.   I'd happily sign a waiver that I can't contact customer support for speed or performance issues while my own router is in place.  I'll gladly find a gigabit router/firewall that works and I won't expect Google to hold my hand along the way.  For some of us, having a cutting edge network connection is about more than just raw speed.  What was the old tire marketing slogan?  "Power means nothing without control" ?

Both of these things seem like fairly easy fixes, and would go a long way towards providing the truly high end service some of us are craving.
12/6/13
Original Poster
Atlantisman
Could not agree more JeffV, i would also happily sign a waiver saying i will not contact support regarding speed or other such issues. Google, PLEASE give Fiber customers the option to use their own router.
Rick Hornsby
12/6/13
Rick Hornsby
I too have been surprised at this phenomena from Google Fiber.  I can maybe think to explain the "not allowed to use your own router (unless of course, you double NAT)" and the silly way the Google Fiber router's interface is put together, with all the limitations it has -- the service is still fairly young and they may be trying to keep their support folks available to fix issues for now.

The other thing that is going on with the way the service works is that the Network Box (router) manages the wireless, as well as the other Google devices (ie the tv boxes) on the network.  The TV boxes act as wireless repeaters and have an ethernet jack for connecting a hardwired device like a BluRay player.  Neither the TV box wireless or wired ports require any customer configuration to act properly.  These TV boxes connect to the rest the network over RG-6 (standard CATV wire).  The RG-6 signal for both the TV and the network traffic is fed from the "Storage box", which is connected up to the Network Box via ethernet.  The whole thing looks something like so:

fiber -> fiber transceiver -> ethernet -> network box (is both wifi AP and ethernet switch) -> ethernet -> storage box -> RG-6 -> tv box-> (optionally) ethernet -> customer device

There may also be some TV management functions ie QoS performed by the Network Box as well, not sure.

That said, I definitely get where you're coming from and have been frustrated at both the unnecessarily confusing Network Box UI (this is the screen that indicates this is where I should set up port forwarding, but it doesn't work -- oh wait that's on another screen!?)  as well as the limitations of not being able to shut off the routing functions and make it a bridge - similar to a cable modem.  I'm not sure, based on the above (and I'm just theorizing by observation of what they put in my house), that the Network Box will ever be able to go away entirely unless maybe you don't have any TV products - which means no TV boxes or wireless repeaters to manage.  Then I can see it being somewhat unneeded.
Nodas P
12/7/13
Nodas P
Just dropping a note to let you know that our product team's eyes are on this forum.
Thank you for your input!

Kindly
Nodas,
The Google Fiber team
James
12/17/13
James
I had hoped to be able to replace the terrible Google Network Box with another router by copying the MAC to the new router.  However, I tried to get the MAC by checking for dhcp requests on the WAN interface and there don't appear to be any.  So the network box is apparently not using the standard dhcp protocol for getting it's IP.  I'm thinking then that Google wants to be so sure you have to use there box that they use/developed an analogous protocol to dhcp.  They may also be doing some 802.11 authenticating with the key hardwired into the box.  I haven't wiresharked it to see exactly what is going on.  This could make sense as their solution to being sure people can't plug anything into the network.  But other provider's MAC system of verifying network devices seems to work fine and allows us control over our network.

Wasn't some of the propaganda put out about Google Fiber about how Google wanted to inspire and enable innovation, to see what people can do with gigabit connections to each other?  Taking away control of the network seems to be hindering that more than it is helping it.

So here's to hoping Google gives us the ability to swap out the Network Box with any standard router or if it is using something like EAP then just give us the information for configuring our own routers to authenticate.
12/17/13
Original Poster
Atlantisman
I suspect that there is some kind of authentication that happens between the fiber jack, network box, and the Google Fiber network itself. 

The good news is that google could easily fix this just by adding a bridge feature to the next network box update. That way the network box can still handle all of the back-end authentication and we would still be able to use our own routers.

We just have to make enough noise to let google know this is something that a lot of their subscribers want.
James
12/18/13
James
Yes, a bridge feature would be just as good.  Direct access to the authentication protocol would be interesting from an academic and "tinkering" aspect, but yeah just being able to bridge would be fantastic and would really be just as good for anything I want to do.
644 MORE
Benjamin Stroud
5/5/18
Benjamin Stroud
How do I install pfsense and dns script
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